Indie Gamer Chick recently held a new installment of her #IGCvNES series on twitter, look at the Bart Vs The Space Mutants while talking with developer Garry Kitchen. We at Real Otaku Gamer have compiled ( with permission) the text and the Q and A held. Have a look below.
(@IndieGamerChick)Welcome everyone to the Simpsons: Bart vs The Space Mutants for #IGCvNES.
Special guest: game director @kitchengarry.
So, this won’t be a typical #IGCvNES. While I’ll be providing my commentary, this will also be a live Q&A with Garry. Anyone can submit questions. Let’s start! https://t.co/n40efAwHoy
(@Cheesemeister)I have very fond memories of playing this to The Simpsons Sing the Blues. I did manage to clear it! What sticks out was the assignment of run/jump to A. Was there movement to port it to 16-bit systems w/ more buttons? How was the post-launch feedback from the publisher/licensor?
(@IndieGamerChick)I gotta believe having more buttons helped. Even after an hour of playing, I struggled to get used to “Start = Use Item” when EVERYONE is used to it being “Pause”
(Kitchengarry)Acclaim was happy, they made lots of $$ and kept hiring us for Simpsons games. By the time 16-bit machines came, there was a new sheriff in town at Acclaim (they were too big for me to deal directly with Greg) & he didn’t like me much. He hired other groups for the 16-bit games.
(Indie Gamer Chick)And this will all be one thread for easy access to everyone. Hello Garry.
So I cheated a bit and played through half the first level so I could prep some starting questions. And the first one is, how did you get the license? #IGCvNES
@kitchengarry https://t.co/k6RKYtkURg
(@Kitchengarry)Kudos to Greg Fischbach. He’s always been a genius at recognizing great properties; also, Ghostbusters, which @PitfallCreator and me (a tiny tiny piece) worked on.
(@IndieGamerChick)Nah, this license won’t go anywhere. Total fad. No staying power 😛
(@Kitchengarry)When I was at Activision, Greg Fischbach was a VP there. He left and founded Acclaim and I left and started Absolute Entertainment. Greg got the license from Fox, called me to see if I wanted to do the game, I called Barry Marx & asked him if I should do the game, at that was it.
(SolidRoar)Hi, Garry. I loved this game and it’s one of the first titles to give me the satisfaction of beating it—it wasn’t an easy task!
My question is: How did you come up with the idea for the game? Were there ever any guidlines or specific instructions from the company?
(@Kitchengarry)It was challenging. Barry, I and Greg met with Matt Groening & James L. Brooks (producer of Simpsons, Hollywood superstar). They wanted a very Simpsons family centric-game, all characters involved. Acclaim (rightly so) wanted a Bart game. Acclaim won.
(@IndieGamerChick)Can you elaborate more on what the producers of the show wanted? Something where you rotated between the characters?
Also, you’re in good company. The famous Spielberg “why can’t ET just be more like Pac-Man?” story. Nobody lets the game creators do their thing.
(@Kitchengarry)Frankly, Barry & I were star struck. We brainstormed a game where each level you were controlling a different character, doing skills appropriate for who they were & Brooks loved it. We went home and Acclaim threw a fit. They were 100% right. It was all about Bart on a skateboard
(@IndieGamerChick)Which is weird because I have not yet gotten to a skateboard.
@Radical_R) Oh this should be a treat.Secrets galore in the first stage!
One of my favorite things about the game is how each level feels different, not just aesthetically, but also the task you have to do to collect the required items. Who came up with that idea? I especially loved the fair level where you had to win different games at kiosks.
I loved the fair level too; I loved the idea of embedding little mini games in the booths. The difference in levels was a conscious decision, but also an inevitable result of different internal teams doing different levels. I was most involved in the first and the last.
This hurts to hear! Oh the game we could have had…
(@IndieGamerChick)Here’s the X-Ray specs in action. A clever mechanic as you have to check passer-bys to see if they’re Space Mutants or not. And I think the Space Mutant concept is a throwaway gag from the “Cut the Statue’s Head Off” episode, correct? #IGCvNES https://t.co/gXsAi1nqfA
(@McPortugalem)The specs are funny because in 2020 I cannot think of anything but MIB whenI see them even though it predates it by quite a while…
(@SolidRoar)The first level gives a strong THEY LIVE vibe. I wonder if that movie inspired the X-ray glasses.
@kitchengarry Were you familiar with the Simpsons when you got the call from Acclaim?
Also, I did the math. At the time you guys got call, you had access to roughly 1.2% of the entire Simpsons canon that has happened over the last 30+ years, including Tracy Ullman. #IGCvNES https://t.co/j0UMWlkbni
(Kitchengarry)BTW, as an aside, the original Activision guys worked at Atari. They left and started Activision. Greg Fischbach & I were at Activision. He left and started Acclaim, I left and started Absolute. Alan Miller left Activision and started Accolade. Anyone see a pattern there?
(Gonzo_Ed)You wanted to be listed early in the Yellow Pages listing for Video Game Developers??!?! ¯\_(?)_/¯
(IThat’s how Apple got its name. It wanted to be in front of Atari in the yellow pages.
Publishers. For the CES toy buyers.
(IndieGamerChick)Greg Fischbach was going to be out of video games, at least was his plan, until he saw the original NES prototype at CES (Advanced Video System?) and decided to secure a license if I’m not mistaken?
(Kitchengarry)I think that’s correct. He left Activision with Jimmie Scorpowski, ubre sales VP. They were the first U.S.-licensed NES publisher.
(Atari_VB_Pod)Alphabetical order?
(IndieGamerChick)It was actually a thing where companies tried to become the first listed in the Yellow Pages/Directories.
This started with Apple choosing its name primarily to be listed in front of Atari at trade shows and in the Yellow Pages. @NolanBushnell I believe chose Atari in part..
(IndieGamerChick)because Syzygy, their original name, was already owned by a California candle maker, so they selected “Atari” in part because it would make them the first listing for “Computer Services and Manufacturing” in the Bay Area yellow pages and listed first in Arcade trade directories.
(OzIndie)Fun thing to note here: While an American company, it is named after a Japanese word. There are actually several things Atari (???) can mean, but in this case it was after the move in the boardgame Go.
???, definition 3:
https://t.co/77Hdo9d0SF
(other definitions exist)
(IndieGamerChick)Atari is essentially “check” though it’s considered crass by Go players to actually debate “Atari)
When Nolan left Atari and founded his own company, he named it Sente. “Checkmate”
And Tengen is the center starting position of a Go board)
(Kitchengarry)I didn’t know the Simpsons at all. Mr. Marx knew them completely. That’s why I hired him. I watched the first episode with my (then) wife, now my ex-wife, and she said, “this is horrible,” you’re not going to do this game! I did the game.
I gotta throw this out there: besides Donkey Kong for Atari 2600, was this the biggest seller of your career?
#IGCvNES
(@Kitchengarry)All of the Simpsons game we worked on. Quantity-wise though, my iPhone games.
(IndieGamerChickI like “weird” & “experimental” and the Bart vs Space Mutants certainly is NOT conventional as far as 1991 NES games go. Instead of merely “point A to point B” levels, you have to solve puzzles. In Level 1, it’s “cover up everything purple.” How’d that come about, @kitchengarry? https://t.co/NAtmRpKE8h
(@Kitchengarry)Not sure where the paint everything purple came from. Could be because it fit Bart’s personality, pulling off a little graffiti in town.
(@IndieGamerChick)Is it possible you guys got it from early T-shirts where Bart would spray-paint EL BARTO on things? This was a very, VERY early Simpsons trope. https://t.co/vtvxTT5SBe
(@Kitchengarry)Yup, I’m sure that’s it.
But who is this mysterious El Barto?
(@Kitchengarry)I wanted the game to feel different from Super Mario Bros so we spent a lot of time building in puzzles drawing from gags on the show. That was most typified in Level 1, which I mostly designed/programmed. As the schedule got squeezed, so did that idea, and many others… sad.
(@IndieGamerChick)So, a little birdie told me you guys have about 100 days to pitch, get approved, and have a fully working prototype of this done so you could get both Acclaim’s approval AND Nintendo was VERY NERVOUS that a Simpsons game would meet all their regulations. How accurate is my bird? https://t.co/tMmbccXvQs
(@Kitchengarry)I think we started July/August. We had to be done by Oct to ship for holidays. We killed ourselves but didn’t get Nintendo approval til Dec, shipped Jan. Nintendo was involved (not concept, more mechanic). I didn’t want Bart to feel like Mario, they wanted Bart to feel like Mario
(@IndieGamerChick)My Nintendo people (OMG, I have Nintendo people) tell me the old folks running Nintendo in both the US and Japan thought the game would have to be heavily censored because the one episode they saw, Bart said “Who the Hell are you?” and was naked (presumably the Genius episode).
(@Kitchengarry)Hysterical. Yes, there was a lot of that with the early Simpsons. Not so much anymore, huh?
(IndieGamerChick)Well, it’s safe to say you guys were working with a new IP that legitimately frightened a lot of conservatives. There were arcades in the US that banned the Konami Simpsons game and some local Fox affiliates were picketed.
Did you guys ever get any of that kind of blow-back?
(@Kitchengarry)BTW, just to clear something up, I did not cofound Activision. I get that a lot cause I’ve worked w David Crane @PitfallCreator ever since Activision. I opened the first satellite design office. When I joined there were 6 game developers; Cartwright & Carol Shaw + the original 4.
(@Kitchengarry)Only from my ex-wife.
(IndieGamerChick)So how did she take it when you said “honey, I need to watch more episodes, because I just signed to do the sequel?”
(@Kitchengarry)lol. I had to watch in another room, she was a good Christian woman. Did not like the morals of that show.
(@IndieGamerChick)Amazingly, despite being VERY early in the 30+ year Simpsons run, they still have iconic gags. You prank call Moe’s Tavern at one point.
Then he walks out and you spraypaint his shirt red.
(@dankitchen)Garry and Barry we’re responsible for putting in all those Simpsons gags. They came off perfectly done!
(@IndieGamerChick)I totaled up the entire runtime of the Simpsons, including Tracy Ullman shorts, the movie, etc.. (only left out commercials)..
It was something like 1.8% of the entire canon to work with. The cast of hundreds of characters wasn’t established yet at all when you guys started..
(@IndieGamerChick)In fact, the cover even has a generic guy on the roof, something that would NEVER happen today.
It’s incredible how many on-brand gags you guys did work in. https://t.co/gM9xvnqEnO
(@jasonventer)The game came with a poster depicting the same cover art that I had on my bedroom wall for quite some time as a child. I think somewhere I might still have a picture I also took of the poster hanging on my bedroom wall, though that too may finally have been lost. Love the art!
(@kitchengarry) Thank you. Yes, I thought parts were brilliant. (thank you, Barry) It sold very very well, and wasn’t a bad game, but it could have been superb, given more time.
(@TheFairhurst) Omg I can hear the music. I still have the cartridge somewhere
(@aquariusdreamer)I love this game! Total nostalgia
Controls are quite rough but this is absurdly ambitious and clever for 1991.
#IGCvNES https://t.co/XLZ5VBPeev
This is not a typical NES game. The biggest knock on it is it has no polish. That’s on the publishers, not the game creators. Yes, that’s the bane of MANY licensed games, but in the case of the Simpsons, they had like four months tops to have a prototype up. #IGCvNES https://t.co/ta5lBm3kzX
(Kitchengarry)Well, I wouldn’t say no polish. It had some polish.
(IndieGamerChick)Well you know what I mean. This is not going to be as smooth as a game with an 18 month development cycle.
For those that missed it: the game started development in July/August, 1990, and was submitted for approval in October 1990.
Unreal. That’s the type of nightmare schedule that Atari would pull on a regular basis. Greg Fischbach, coming from Atari, should have known better. https://t.co/d2AtpCSFDe
Was the Simpsons: Bart vs The Space Mutants designed from the ground-up, or did it use some kind of plug-and-play template companies like Sunsoft, Capcom, etc were known to use, @kitchengarry?
BTW, RTs are appreciated, everyone. Full reprinting rights are yours. #IGCvNES https://t.co/3byAu0Kibb
(Kitchengarry)No plug-n-play templates back then. 100% assembly language 6502 code, written from scratch.
(IndieGamerChick)Well you guys didn’t, but I know for a fact Sunsoft created “blanks” and then plugged in IPs (basically ROM hacked their own designs) as the IPs were gotten. Journey to Silius was presented, near completed, to the IP owner of Terminator to be a Terminator game.
(Kitchengarry)Jeez, we weren’t that sophisticated at that point.
(LJ)Weren’t Sunsoft like, crazy talented business programmers that decided to get i to gaming because they saw the profit in it?
(@IndieGamerChick)SPEAKING OF WHICH..
I know @kitchengarry’s time is short but we have like 20 minutes left and I want to sneak in a couple Bart v the World questions.
And the first is “how much of the sequel is material/level ideas cut from the original game?”
#IGCvNES https://t.co/WrGa56AUuJ
(@Kitchengarry)All I wanted from Bart vs. the World was Bart skateboarding down the Great Wall of China. I swear, that was the entire reason for pitching the idea.
(@IndieGamerChick)That’s a big pitch.
It became a reality in one of the gameboy games. My childhood simpsons game Bart vs The Juggernauts
Never realised it came from Bart Vs The world. Cool!
(McPortugalem)I find Lisa meditating on the cover somewhat ironic given her later conversion to Buddhism. Obviously that was not even a glimpse of an idea in the writer’s minds so who came up with that? Just the artist on their own?
(IndieGamerChick)(@kitchengarry, in case you didn’t know, Lisa becoming a Buddhist became a MAJOR plot point for about 20 of the 30 seasons of the Simpsons, so you guys might have actually coined an iconic aspect of one of TV’s most iconic brainy characters.
Presumably the check is in the mail)
(SolidRoar)I really think The Simpsons NES games deserve to be released in a retro collection today, much like Capcom did with Disney Afternoon Collection. Is that even a possibility? I know Acclaim no longer exists, but who owns the rights to the games today?
(IndieGamerChick)I think I know the answer but I’m not allowed to say, and I’m guessing Garry can’t either if my other hunch was correct.
(Kitchengarry)Licensed properties never go in retro compilations, because the rights have long since moved on to others. It’s a shame.
(IndieGamerChick)Well I’ve heard rumor of a Konami one and I know they’ve done some preliminary work on one, my team knows about it and is sworn to silence.. cowbunga, dude?
(McPortugalem)Uhhh…
(McPortugalem)You said it was a conscious decisiom to not make Bart “feel like Mario” in Vs The Space Mutants. Given the much heavier emphasis on platforming in Vs the World was a more Mario like control ever considered?
(Kitchengarry)Not sure, I didn’t write that engine, and I don’t think Nintendo gave the same feedback on that game.
(IndieGamerChick)Do you think Nintendo was less hands on in part because they knew you wouldn’t have Bart cussing, OR, was it also because Simpsons suddenly became smoking hot (#1 rated by time they got involved in late 1990) and they needed a hit IP to drive NES sales over the 16 bit Genny?
(Kitchengarry)Nintendo trusted me. I’ve always had a very close, and mutually respectful, relationship with them.
(IndieGamerChick)Yea, they’re really cool. When I went to rehab in 2018, the first letter of encouragement I got from a video game company was from Nintendo. And it’s weird because as a critic, it’s kinda adversarial with them..
It was really personal and touching and I’ll never forget it.
(McPortugalem)And yet you have a thousand people ready to swear by the fact you hate Nintendo…I don’t get people sometimes.
I’m glad it went well for you. Stay the course.
(Kitchengarry)Nintendo is a good company. And good people there.
(Jasonventer)Just wondered if you have anything to share about digital Bart Simpson voice at the start saying “Eat my shorts.” At the time, it impressed the heck out of me. Difficult to make happen? Also, did most of the dev time go to that terrific first level?
(IndieGamerChick)Oh yes, was it Nancy Cartwright who did it?
It took me 2 seconds of playing v The World to notice the movement is more accurate, more “stop on a dime” which is better for NES games, but at a cost of having less gags than Space Mutants did
What was the dev time for Bart v the World compared to Space Mutants, @kitchengarry? https://t.co/mPeZOlSQLN
(Kitchengarry)More reasonable, I’m sure. My brother Dan @dankitchen was the lead designer on Bart vs. the World. I wrote some code and did some design; so did @PitfallCreator , who in fact also worked on Bart vs. the Space Mutants. World probably took 8 or 9 months.
(IndieGamerChick)Was James L Brooks and Matt Groening as involved or were they super busy with their millions from the show being successful by that point?
(Kitchengarry)Very involved in the concept. 1st meeting was on the lot at Fox Studios. We walk in w some people from Acclaim, there’s Groening, w Brooks on the sofa (Barry/I know who Brooks is). Brooks is very vocal. As we leave an Acclaim guy says “who was the asshole on the sofa?” LOL
(Indie Gamer Chick)LMAO! I’ve heard Brooks is a piece of work.
(@Kitchengarry)James L. Brooks, for the uninformed, was one of the top 5 most important people in Hollywood; Oscars, Emmys, etc. A God on the Fox lot.
(Indie Gamer Chick)He’s also my Godfather’s second cousin. Not joking.
(Dankitchen)Bart vs. the World was a group effort. The lead designer was actually one of our producers and a dear friend, the late Barry Marx. I helped oversee the design with Barry. The reason Bart is more responsive is because one of our designers, Roger Booth, took time tweak him.
(IndieGamerChick)Honor to meet you, Daniel. I’m Cathy, Garry’s friend and fan and soon to be stalker…… uh….. keeper awayer.
(Kitchengarry)Cathy, I think you have your next victim, an hour with Dan.
(Indie Gamer Chick)Hey Dan, if you’re game, I’d love to have you tomorrow!
Also, the Kitchens have to belong on the “Greatest Game Design Brothers” though if Pinball counts, you two will forgive me if I still vote for the Ritchie brothers 😛
(Dan Kitchen)I’d be honored.
(IndieGamerChick)6PM PDT tomorrow? If you’re available and willing, I’ll play Bart vs The World and Bart vs Radioactive Man for the hour while you take Q&A from me and my fans?
I do it all on Twitter. #IGCvNES
I’m actually famous for being tough on games and I will be tough but fair.
(DanKitchenSounds) great. So you’ll just ping me on Twitter?
(IndieGamerChick)Yep, so they’ll be a thread like today, I’ll DM you right before the start. I’ll play ahead and get pictures and prep some questions and hopefully follow-up questions reveal themselves, plus it’s an open forum and fans can ask too!
It’s a lot of fun. I have the best readers.
(DanKitchen)Sounds great!
(IndieGamerChick)We’re getting ready to wrap-up here everyone, so if you have any questions for @kitchengarry, speak now or forever hold your piece.
I do have to do this, because it’s my job…….
Garry..
I heard that you might have been contacted about a Bart v Space Mutants remake? True?
(mteegfx)Can you expand on the relationship between Bart vs the Space Mutants and Swamp Thing?
(mteegfx)Swamp Thing was possibly built off of the Bart v the Space Mutants engine: https://t.co/6D4pIN9qms
(IndieGamerChick)I don’t even know how as it’s a different company and publisher.
(mteegfx)Both are listed as developed by Imagineering on wikipedia, but I didn’t even realize they were released under different publishers until now. 🙂 https://t.co/8nKxS9akvJ
(SolidRoar)Oh, wow! I do hope that’s true! I have a last question: were you involved with Bartman Meets Radioactive Man?
(Kitchengarry)Not at all. Dan Kitchen again. @dankitchen .
(SolidRoar)One of the last NES games I owned. I loved all The Simpsons games.
Thank you for the time answering our questions, Garry. It was really nice chatting with a designer of a childhood favorite. I never would have dreamed of this if it wasn’t for @IndieGamerChick, of course. ?
(Kitchengarry)Thank you for your interest Saud. It was my pleasure.
(Kitchengarry)Not me. Haven’t heard a thing about that.
(@IndieGamerCheckOne last question for Garry, and I have to ask this because, earlier this Summer I played through over 300 Atari games, and in the top 10 was @kitchengarry’s Keystone Kapers, a legitimate contender for “Best VCS Game”
It would lend itself to a remake, easily. How about it?
(Kitchengarry)Funny you mention that. My brother @dankitchen is working on a “spiritual” sequel to Keystone Kapers. Check it out – Dan Kitchen’s Gold Rush.
(IndieGamerChick)Absolutely will. I guess I need to throw in one more question: do you stay in touch with the modern Activision at all? I was thinking a neat idea for a future Activision Anthology would be to record “Audio Commentaries” that could play over the first 5 to 10 minutes of each game.
(Kitchengarry)I’ve met Bobby, we are acquaintances, but it’s really a far different company today. I respect what they’ve done, but I don’t think they put enough effort into remembering, and honoring, the old days.
(Dankitchen)Agreed.
(Indie Gamer Chick)Thank you to Garry Kitchen.
You’ve played his work. Donkey Kong 2600, A Boy and his Blob (w/ @PitfallCreator), Keystone Kapers (possibly Atari 2600’s best game)..
The man is truly a good dude and one of my favorite people. A legend in and out of gaming. Thank you @kitchengarry!
(@Kitchengarry) Are we done? I thought it went very well. Tough to keep up with the questions, glad I can type fast.
(@IndieGamerChick) I think that’s it! I really loved this and hope this is the first of many with lots of legendary developers.
Garry, you’re a gentleman and a gift to gaming. First ballot Hall-of-famer.
(@Kitchengarry)Thank you everyone for participating it was really fun. Thank you for Cathy for putting this together; great job!
(@Mcportugalem) It might not be my place but I wanted to thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. It was unbelievably amazing getting to talk to an industry legend like so, and about games that predate me
(@MrJonFaust)What are some things you wanted to put in the game but were unable to?
(@Garrykitchen)Good question….I think all that stuff ended up in Bart vs. the World and Bart Vs. Radioactive Man.
(@Mcportugalem) It’s generally understood that Bart was the stand out character early on as opposed to Homer now. Was using Bart as a main character a Fox demand amidst Bartmania?
(@Kitchengarry)There was no Bart Mania at that point. It wasn’t even as clear that the show would succeed. As I said Brooks wanted a different game. At a later meeting, he pulled me aside and said “what happened to the first concept?” Oops
(@Cheesemeister) What was the first concept?
(@MCBRemakes) Thank you so much for this. I love this game.
(@Kitchengarry)You’re so welcome. It means a lot to me when people still appreciate work that I did almost 40 years ago. 🙂
(@IndieGamerChick)30. Come on Garry. *I’m* not that old. Your, but I ain’t. Not yet. OH GOD.
(@McPortugalem)Are you aware of the AVGN review of this game(and Ghostbusters as well. And if so how do you view them? Do you feel they unfairly “stain” the game’s reputation? I know they were the first I heard of Bart Vs the Space Mutants.
(@Garrykitchen) You can never please everybody. I think there are some very fun parts to the game. I’m the first one to admit that we didn’t have enough time to really polish it. Some of the levels are rough, making the game too hard. I do like the nuclear power plant but no one ever sees it. 🙂
(@Mcportugalem)I just noticed Groenig’s signature on the cover. Was he the one to draw it? I ask because it was also on the title screen. Was sticking his name in there part of the deal? (I ask mostly because it’d be ironic given much later Simpsons videogames like the ps3/360 one by EA)
(@Kitchengarry) The brilliant Bill Morrison/Atom Battery studios, did the cover art for the game. I recently found out tried to buy the painting, but he had sold it. Yes, Matt’s signature was part of the contract.
(@Prof_armchair) May be showing my age here, but I remember, back in the day, this game was in Nintendo Power’s tip-center All The Time. Which was the best kids had in the days before the internet and gamefaqs. Just goes to show how unconventional it was.
(@MatWBT)Hi Garry,
The 2nd level of the game is a real highlight for me with all the mini games you can play at the carnival.
Given the limitations of the NES, how hard was this level to pull off?
(@McPortugalem)Early Simpsons (S1-S3) had a more surreal almost fantastical humor style (dream sequences, implied magic “fate” etc) did this inspire such an out there concept as Aliens?
(@An0d0s) I both live and hate the simpsons NES games.
So…surreal. yet also impossible
(@monotonegent)
We thank Indie Gamer Chick and Garry Kitchen for their permission to repeat this.
You can read the twitter thread here
Welcome everyone to the Simpsons: Bart vs The Space Mutants for #IGCvNES.
Special guest: game director @kitchengarry.
So, this won't be a typical #IGCvNES. While I'll be providing my commentary, this will also be a live Q&A with Garry. Anyone can submit questions. Let's start! pic.twitter.com/n40efAwHoy
— Indie Gamer Chick (@IndieGamerChick) August 21, 2020
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